Date:   Sat, 17 Aug 2019 23:10:10 +0900
From:   Toshiaki Makita <toshiaki.makita1@...il.com>
To:     Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...ichev.me>
Cc:     Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>,
        Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        Martin KaFai Lau <kafai@...com>,
        Song Liu <songliubraving@...com>, Yonghong Song <yhs@...com>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Jakub Kicinski <jakub.kicinski@...ronome.com>,
        Jesper Dangaard Brouer <hawk@...nel.org>,
        John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>,
        Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@...il.com>,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        bpf@...r.kernel.org, William Tu <u9012063@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH bpf-next 00/14] xdp_flow: Flow offload to XDP

On 19/08/17 (土) 0:35:50, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
> On 08/16, Toshiaki Makita wrote:
>> On 2019/08/16 0:21, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
>>> On 08/15, Toshiaki Makita wrote:
>>>> On 2019/08/15 2:07, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
>>>>> On 08/13, Toshiaki Makita wrote:
>>>>>> * Implementation
>>>>>>
>>>>>> xdp_flow makes use of UMH to load an eBPF program for XDP, similar to
>>>>>> bpfilter. The difference is that xdp_flow does not generate the eBPF
>>>>>> program dynamically but a prebuilt program is embedded in UMH. This is
>>>>>> mainly because flow insertion is considerably frequent. If we generate
>>>>>> and load an eBPF program on each insertion of a flow, the latency of the
>>>>>> first packet of ping in above test will incease, which I want to avoid.
>>>>> Can this be instead implemented with a new hook that will be called
>>>>> for TC events? This hook can write to perf event buffer and control
>>>>> plane will insert/remove/modify flow tables in the BPF maps (contol
>>>>> plane will also install xdp program).
>>>>>
>>>>> Why do we need UMH? What am I missing?
>>>>
>>>> So you suggest doing everything in xdp_flow kmod?
>>> You probably don't even need xdp_flow kmod. Add new tc "offload" mode
>>> (bypass) that dumps every command via netlink (or calls the BPF hook
>>> where you can dump it into perf event buffer) and then read that info
>>> from userspace and install xdp programs and modify flow tables.
>>> I don't think you need any kernel changes besides that stream
>>> of data from the kernel about qdisc/tc flow creation/removal/etc.
>>
>> My intention is to make more people who want high speed network easily use XDP,
>> so making transparent XDP offload with current TC interface.
>>
>> What userspace program would monitor TC events with your suggestion?
> Have a new system daemon (xdpflowerd) that is independently
> packaged/shipped/installed. Anybody who wants accelerated TC can
> download/install it. OVS can be completely unaware of this.

Thanks, but that's what I called an unreliable solution...

>> ovs-vswitchd? If so, it even does not need to monitor TC. It can
>> implement XDP offload directly.
>> (However I prefer kernel solution. Please refer to "About alternative
>> userland (ovs-vswitchd etc.) implementation" section in the cover letter.)
>>
>> Also such a TC monitoring solution easily can be out-of-sync with real TC
>> behavior as TC filter/flower is being heavily developed and changed,
>> e.g. introduction of TC block, support multiple masks with the same pref, etc.
>> I'm not sure such an unreliable solution have much value.
> This same issue applies to the in-kernel implementation, isn't it?
> What happens if somebody sends patches for a new flower feature but
> doesn't add appropriate xdp support? Do we reject them?

Why can we accept a patch which breaks other in-kernel subsystem...
Such patches can be applied accidentally but we are supposed to fix such 
problems in -rc phase, aren't we?

Toshiaki Makita

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