netdev - Re: BPF logging infrastructure. Was: [PATCH bpf-next 4/6] tools: add new members to bpf_attr.raw

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Message-ID: <874kq9ey2j.fsf@toke.dk>
Date:   Wed, 15 Jul 2020 14:56:36 +0200
From:   Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@...hat.com>
To:     Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
Cc:     Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@...il.com>,
        bpf <bpf@...r.kernel.org>, Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>,
        Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        Martin KaFai Lau <kafai@...com>,
        Song Liu <songliubraving@...com>, Yonghong Song <yhs@...com>,
        Andrii Nakryiko <andriin@...com>,
        John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        KP Singh <kpsingh@...omium.org>,
        Networking <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        Kernel Team <kernel-team@...com>
Subject: Re: BPF logging infrastructure. Was: [PATCH bpf-next 4/6] tools: add new members to bpf_attr.raw_tracepoint in bpf.h

Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> writes:

> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 12:19:03AM +0200, Toke HÃƒÂ¸iland-JÃƒÂ¸rgensen wrote:
>> Andrii Nakryiko <andrii.nakryiko@...il.com> writes:
>> 
>> >> However, assuming it *is* possible, my larger point was that we
>> >> shouldn't add just a 'logging struct', but rather a 'common options
>> >> struct' which can be extended further as needed. And if it is *not*
>> >> possible to add new arguments to a syscall like you're proposing, my
>> >> suggestion above would be a different way to achieve basically the same
>> >> (at the cost of having to specify the maximum reserved space in advance).
>> >>
>> >
>> > yeah-yeah, I agree, it's less a "logging attr", more of "common attr
>> > across all commands".
>> 
>> Right, great. I think we are broadly in agreement with where we want to
>> go with this, actually :)
>
> I really don't like 'common attr across all commands'.
> Both of you are talking as libbpf developers who occasionally need to
> add printk-s to the kernel. That is not an excuse to bloat api that will be
> useful to two people.

What? No, this is about making error messages comprehensible to people
who *can't* just go around adding printks. "Guess the source of the
EINVAL" is a really bad user experience!

> The only reason log_buf sort-of make sense in raw_tp_open is because
> btf comparison is moved from prog_load into raw_tp_open.
> Miscompare of (prog_fd1, btf_id1) vs (prog_fd2, btf_id2) can be easily solved
> by libbpf with as nice and as human friendly message libbpf can do.

So userspace is supposed to replicate all the checks done by the kernel
because we can't be bothered to add proper error messages? Really?

> I'm not convinced yet that it's a kernel job to print it nicely. It certainly can,
> but it's quite a bit different from two existing bpf commands where log_buf is used:
> PROG_LOAD and BTF_LOAD. In these two cases the kernel verifies the program
> and the BTF. raw_tp_open is different, since the kernel needs to compare
> that function signatures (prog_fd1, btf_id1) and (prog_fd2, btf_id2) are
> exactly the same. The kernel can indicate that with single specific errno and
> libbpf can print human friendly function signatures via btf_dump infra for
> humans to see.
> So I really don't see why log_buf is such a necessity for raw_tp_open.

I'll drop them from raw_tp_open for this series, but I still think they
should be added globally (or something like it). Returning a
user-friendly error message should be the absolute minimum we do. Just
like extack does for netlink.

-Toke