Date:   Mon, 25 Oct 2021 19:47:29 +0100
From:   "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@...hat.com>
To:     Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com>
Cc:     Yishai Hadas <yishaih@...dia.com>,
        Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...dia.com>, bhelgaas@...gle.com,
        saeedm@...dia.com, linux-pci@...r.kernel.org, kvm@...r.kernel.org,
        netdev@...r.kernel.org, kuba@...nel.org, leonro@...dia.com,
        kwankhede@...dia.com, mgurtovoy@...dia.com, maorg@...dia.com,
        Cornelia Huck <cohuck@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH V2 mlx5-next 12/14] vfio/mlx5: Implement vfio_pci driver
 for mlx5 devices

* Alex Williamson (alex.williamson@...hat.com) wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 17:34:01 +0100
> "Dr. David Alan Gilbert" <dgilbert@...hat.com> wrote:
> 
> > * Alex Williamson (alex.williamson@...hat.com) wrote:
> > > [Cc +dgilbert, +cohuck]
> > > 
> > > On Wed, 20 Oct 2021 11:28:04 +0300
> > > Yishai Hadas <yishaih@...dia.com> wrote:
> > >   
> > > > On 10/20/2021 2:04 AM, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:  
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 02:58:56PM -0600, Alex Williamson wrote:    
> > > > >> I think that gives us this table:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> |   NDMA   | RESUMING |  SAVING  |  RUNNING |
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+ ---
> > > > >> |     X    |     0    |     0    |     0    |  ^
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+  |
> > > > >> |     0    |     0    |     0    |     1    |  |
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+  |
> > > > >> |     X    |     0    |     1    |     0    |
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+  NDMA value is either compatible
> > > > >> |     0    |     0    |     1    |     1    |  to existing behavior or don't
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+  care due to redundancy vs
> > > > >> |     X    |     1    |     0    |     0    |  !_RUNNING/INVALID/ERROR
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+
> > > > >> |     X    |     1    |     0    |     1    |  |
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+  |
> > > > >> |     X    |     1    |     1    |     0    |  |
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+  |
> > > > >> |     X    |     1    |     1    |     1    |  v
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+ ---
> > > > >> |     1    |     0    |     0    |     1    |  ^
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+  Desired new useful cases
> > > > >> |     1    |     0    |     1    |     1    |  v
> > > > >> +----------+----------+----------+----------+ ---
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Specifically, rows 1, 3, 5 with NDMA = 1 are valid states a user can
> > > > >> set which are simply redundant to the NDMA = 0 cases.    
> > > > > It seems right
> > > > >    
> > > > >> Row 6 remains invalid due to lack of support for pre-copy (_RESUMING
> > > > >> | _RUNNING) and therefore cannot be set by userspace.  Rows 7 & 8
> > > > >> are error states and cannot be set by userspace.    
> > > > > I wonder, did Yishai's series capture this row 6 restriction? Yishai?    
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > It seems so,  by using the below check which includes the 
> > > > !VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_VALID clause.
> > > > 
> > > > if (old_state == VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_ERROR ||
> > > >          !VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_VALID(state) ||
> > > >          (state & ~MLX5VF_SUPPORTED_DEVICE_STATES))
> > > >          return -EINVAL;
> > > > 
> > > > Which is:
> > > > 
> > > > #define VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_VALID(state) \
> > > >      (state & VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_RESUMING ? \
> > > >      (state & VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_MASK) == VFIO_DEVICE_STATE_RESUMING : 1)
> > > >   
> > > > >    
> > > > >> Like other bits, setting the bit should be effective at the completion
> > > > >> of writing device state.  Therefore the device would need to flush any
> > > > >> outbound DMA queues before returning.    
> > > > > Yes, the device commands are expected to achieve this.
> > > > >    
> > > > >> The question I was really trying to get to though is whether we have a
> > > > >> supportable interface without such an extension.  There's currently
> > > > >> only an experimental version of vfio migration support for PCI devices
> > > > >> in QEMU (afaik),    
> > > > > If I recall this only matters if you have a VM that is causing
> > > > > migratable devices to interact with each other. So long as the devices
> > > > > are only interacting with the CPU this extra step is not strictly
> > > > > needed.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, single device cases can be fine as-is
> > > > >
> > > > > IMHO the multi-device case the VMM should probably demand this support
> > > > > from the migration drivers, otherwise it cannot know if it is safe for
> > > > > sure.
> > > > >
> > > > > A config option to override the block if the admin knows there is no
> > > > > use case to cause devices to interact - eg two NVMe devices without
> > > > > CMB do not have a useful interaction.
> > > > >    
> > > > >> so it seems like we could make use of the bus-master bit to fill
> > > > >> this gap in QEMU currently, before we claim non-experimental
> > > > >> support, but this new device agnostic extension would be required
> > > > >> for non-PCI device support (and PCI support should adopt it as
> > > > >> available).  Does that sound right?  Thanks,    
> > > > > I don't think the bus master support is really a substitute, tripping
> > > > > bus master will stop DMA but it will not do so in a clean way and is
> > > > > likely to be non-transparent to the VM's driver.
> > > > >
> > > > > The single-device-assigned case is a cleaner restriction, IMHO.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alternatively we can add the 4th bit and insist that migration drivers
> > > > > support all the states. I'm just unsure what other HW can do, I get
> > > > > the feeling people have been designing to the migration description in
> > > > > the header file for a while and this is a new idea.  
> > > 
> > > I'm wondering if we're imposing extra requirements on the !_RUNNING
> > > state that don't need to be there.  For example, if we can assume that
> > > all devices within a userspace context are !_RUNNING before any of the
> > > devices begin to retrieve final state, then clearing of the _RUNNING
> > > bit becomes the device quiesce point and the beginning of reading
> > > device data is the point at which the device state is frozen and
> > > serialized.  No new states required and essentially works with a slight
> > > rearrangement of the callbacks in this series.  Why can't we do that?  
> > 
> > So without me actually understanding your bit encodings that closely, I
> > think the problem is we have to asusme that any transition takes time.
> > From the QEMU point of view I think the requirement is when we stop the
> > machine (vm_stop_force_state(RUN_STATE_FINISH_MIGRATE) in
> > migration_completion) that at the point that call returns (with no
> > error) all devices are idle.  That means you need a way to command the
> > device to go into the stopped state, and probably another to make sure
> > it's got there.
> 
> In a way.  We're essentially recognizing that we cannot stop a single
> device in isolation of others that might participate in peer-to-peer
> DMA with that device, so we need to make a pass to quiesce each device
> before we can ask the device to fully stop.  This new device state bit
> is meant to be that quiescent point, devices can accept incoming DMA
> but should cease to generate any.  Once all device are quiesced then we
> can safely stop them.

It may need some further refinement; for example in that quiesed state
do counters still tick? will a NIC still respond to packets that don't
get forwarded to the host?

Note I still think you need a way to know when you have actually reached
these states; setting a bit in a register is asking nicely for a device
to go into a state - has it got there?

> > Now, you could be a *little* more sloppy; you could allow a device carry
> > on doing stuff purely with it's own internal state up until the point
> > it needs to serialise; but that would have to be strictly internal state
> > only - if it can change any other devices state (or issue an interrupt,
> > change RAM etc) then you get into ordering issues on the serialisation
> > of multiple devices.
> 
> Yep, that's the proposal that doesn't require a uAPI change, we loosen
> the definition of stopped to mean the device can no longer generate DMA
> or interrupts and all internal processing outside or responding to
> incoming DMA should halt (essentially the same as the new quiescent
> state above).  Once all devices are in this state, there should be no
> incoming DMA and we can safely collect per device migration data.  If
> state changes occur beyond the point in time where userspace has
> initiated the collection of migration data, drivers have options for
> generating errors when userspace consumes that data.

How do you know that last device has actually gone into that state?
Also be careful; it feels much more delicate where something might
accidentally start a transaction.

> AFAICT, the two approaches are equally valid.  If we modify the uAPI to
> include this new quiescent state then userspace needs to make some hard
> choices about what configurations they support without such a feature.
> The majority of configurations are likely not exercising p2p between
> assigned devices, but the hypervisor can't know that.  If we work
> within the existing uAPI, well there aren't any open source driver
> implementations yet anyway and any non-upstream implementations would
> need to be updated for this clarification.  Existing userspace works
> better with no change, so long as they already follow the guideline
> that all devices in the userspace context must be stopped before the
> migration data of any device can be considered valid.  Thanks,

Dave

> Alex
> 
-- 
Dr. David Alan Gilbert / dgilbert@...hat.com / Manchester, UK

Powered by blists - more mailing lists