netdev - Re: [xdp-hints] Re: [RFC bpf-next 0/5] xdp: hints via kfuncs

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Message-ID: <CAKH8qBsGB1G60cu91Au816gsB2zF8T0P-yDwxbTEOxX0TN3WgA@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Mon, 31 Oct 2022 18:59:44 -0700
From:   Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>
To:     Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@...ux.dev>
Cc:     "Bezdeka, Florian" <florian.bezdeka@...mens.com>,
        "kuba@...nel.org" <kuba@...nel.org>,
        "john.fastabend@...il.com" <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        "alexandr.lobakin@...el.com" <alexandr.lobakin@...el.com>,
        "anatoly.burakov@...el.com" <anatoly.burakov@...el.com>,
        "song@...nel.org" <song@...nel.org>,
        "Deric, Nemanja" <nemanja.deric@...mens.com>,
        "andrii@...nel.org" <andrii@...nel.org>,
        "Kiszka, Jan" <jan.kiszka@...mens.com>,
        "magnus.karlsson@...il.com" <magnus.karlsson@...il.com>,
        "willemb@...gle.com" <willemb@...gle.com>,
        "ast@...nel.org" <ast@...nel.org>,
        "brouer@...hat.com" <brouer@...hat.com>, "yhs@...com" <yhs@...com>,
        "kpsingh@...nel.org" <kpsingh@...nel.org>,
        "daniel@...earbox.net" <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        "bpf@...r.kernel.org" <bpf@...r.kernel.org>,
        "mtahhan@...hat.com" <mtahhan@...hat.com>,
        "xdp-hints@...-project.net" <xdp-hints@...-project.net>,
        "netdev@...r.kernel.org" <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        "jolsa@...nel.org" <jolsa@...nel.org>,
        "haoluo@...gle.com" <haoluo@...gle.com>,
        Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@...hat.com>
Subject: Re: [xdp-hints] Re: [RFC bpf-next 0/5] xdp: hints via kfuncs

On Mon, Oct 31, 2022 at 3:57 PM Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@...ux.dev> wrote:
>
> On 10/31/22 10:00 AM, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
> >> 2. AF_XDP programs won't be able to access the metadata without using a
> >> custom XDP program that calls the kfuncs and puts the data into the
> >> metadata area. We could solve this with some code in libxdp, though; if
> >> this code can be made generic enough (so it just dumps the available
> >> metadata functions from the running kernel at load time), it may be
> >> possible to make it generic enough that it will be forward-compatible
> >> with new versions of the kernel that add new fields, which should
> >> alleviate Florian's concern about keeping things in sync.
> >
> > Good point. I had to convert to a custom program to use the kfuncs :-(
> > But your suggestion sounds good; maybe libxdp can accept some extra
> > info about at which offset the user would like to place the metadata
> > and the library can generate the required bytecode?
> >
> >> 3. It will make it harder to consume the metadata when building SKBs. I
> >> think the CPUMAP and veth use cases are also quite important, and that
> >> we want metadata to be available for building SKBs in this path. Maybe
> >> this can be resolved by having a convenient kfunc for this that can be
> >> used for programs doing such redirects. E.g., you could just call
> >> xdp_copy_metadata_for_skb() before doing the bpf_redirect, and that
> >> would recursively expand into all the kfunc calls needed to extract the
> >> metadata supported by the SKB path?
> >
> > So this xdp_copy_metadata_for_skb will create a metadata layout that
>
> Can the xdp_copy_metadata_for_skb be written as a bpf prog itself?
> Not sure where is the best point to specify this prog though.  Somehow during
> bpf_xdp_redirect_map?
> or this prog belongs to the target cpumap and the xdp prog redirecting to this
> cpumap has to write the meta layout in a way that the cpumap is expecting?

We're probably interested in triggering it from the places where xdp
frames can eventually be converted into skbs?
So for plain 'return XDP_PASS' and things like bpf_redirect/etc? (IOW,
anything that's not XDP_DROP / AF_XDP redirect).
We can probably make it magically work, and can generate
kernel-digestible metadata whenever data == data_meta, but the
question - should we?
(need to make sure we won't regress any existing cases that are not
relying on the metadata)






> > the kernel will be able to understand when converting back to skb?
> > IIUC, the xdp program will look something like the following:
> >
> > if (xdp packet is to be consumed by af_xdp) {
> >    // do a bunch of bpf_xdp_metadata_<metadata> calls and assemble your
> > own metadata layout
> >    return bpf_redirect_map(xsk, ...);
> > } else {
> >    // if the packet is to be consumed by the kernel
> >    xdp_copy_metadata_for_skb(ctx);
> >    return bpf_redirect(...);
> > }
> >
> > Sounds like a great suggestion! xdp_copy_metadata_for_skb can maybe
> > put some magic number in the first byte(s) of the metadata so the
> > kernel can check whether xdp_copy_metadata_for_skb has been called
> > previously (or maybe xdp_frame can carry this extra signal, idk).