netdev - Re: [RFC PATCH v2 1/7] bpf: Introduce BPF_PROG_TYPE_VNET

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Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2023 21:25:37 -0800
From: Song Liu <song@...nel.org>
To: Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@...nix.com>
Cc: Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>, Jason Wang <jasowang@...hat.com>, 
	Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>, Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>, 
	Andrii Nakryiko <andrii@...nel.org>, Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@...ux.dev>, 
	Yonghong Song <yonghong.song@...ux.dev>, John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>, 
	KP Singh <kpsingh@...nel.org>, Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...gle.com>, Hao Luo <haoluo@...gle.com>, 
	Jiri Olsa <jolsa@...nel.org>, Jonathan Corbet <corbet@....net>, 
	Willem de Bruijn <willemdebruijn.kernel@...il.com>, "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>, 
	Eric Dumazet <edumazet@...gle.com>, Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>, Paolo Abeni <pabeni@...hat.com>, 
	"Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@...hat.com>, Xuan Zhuo <xuanzhuo@...ux.alibaba.com>, 
	Mykola Lysenko <mykolal@...com>, Shuah Khan <shuah@...nel.org>, bpf <bpf@...r.kernel.org>, 
	"open list:DOCUMENTATION" <linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>, LKML <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, 
	Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>, kvm@...r.kernel.org, 
	virtualization@...ts.linux-foundation.org, 
	"open list:KERNEL SELFTEST FRAMEWORK" <linux-kselftest@...r.kernel.org>, 
	Yuri Benditovich <yuri.benditovich@...nix.com>, Andrew Melnychenko <andrew@...nix.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH v2 1/7] bpf: Introduce BPF_PROG_TYPE_VNET_HASH

On Mon, Nov 20, 2023 at 12:05 AM Akihiko Odaki <akihiko.odaki@...nix.com> wrote:
>
> On 2023/11/20 6:02, Song Liu wrote:
[...]
> >> In contrast, our intended use case is more like a normal application.
> >> So, for example, a user may download a container and run QEMU (including
> >> the BPF program) installed in the container. As such, it is nice if the
> >> ABI is stable across kernel releases, but it is not guaranteed for
> >> kfuncs. Such a use case is already covered with the eBPF steering
> >> program so I want to maintain it if possible.
> >
> > TBH, I don't think stability should be a concern for kfuncs used by QEMU.
> > Many core BPF APIs are now implemented as kfuncs: bpf_dynptr_*,
> > bpf_rcu_*, etc. As long as there are valid use cases,these kfuncs will
> > be supported.
>
> Documentation/bpf/kfuncs.rst still says:
>  > kfuncs provide a kernel <-> kernel API, and thus are not bound by any
>  > of the strict stability restrictions associated with kernel <-> user
>  > UAPIs.
>
> Is it possible to change the statement like as follows:
> "Most kfuncs provide a kernel <-> kernel API, and thus are not bound by
> any of the strict stability restrictions associated with kernel <-> user
> UAPIs. kfuncs that have same stability restrictions associated with
> UAPIs are exceptional, and must be carefully reviewed by subsystem (and
> BPF?) maintainers as any other UAPIs are."

I am afraid this is against the intention to not guarantee UAPI-level stability
for kfuncs.

Thanks,
Song