netdev - Re: [PATCH net-next v01 1/1] hinic3: module initialization and tx/rx logic

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Message-ID: <20241230141435.2817079-1-gur.stavi@huawei.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2024 16:14:35 +0200
From: Gur Stavi <gur.stavi@...wei.com>
To: <kuba@...nel.org>
CC: <andrew+netdev@...n.ch>, <cai.huoqing@...ux.dev>, <corbet@....net>,
	<davem@...emloft.net>, <edumazet@...gle.com>, <gongfan1@...wei.com>,
	<guoxin09@...wei.com>, <gur.stavi@...wei.com>, <helgaas@...nel.org>,
	<horms@...nel.org>, <linux-doc@...r.kernel.org>,
	<linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>, <meny.yossefi@...wei.com>,
	<netdev@...r.kernel.org>, <pabeni@...hat.com>, <shenchenyang1@...ilicon.com>,
	<shijing34@...wei.com>, <wulike1@...wei.com>, <zhoushuai28@...wei.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH net-next v01 1/1] hinic3: module initialization and tx/rx logic

> > > I understand. But I'm concerned about the self-assured tone of the
> > > "it's not supported" message, that's very corporate verbiage. Annotating
> > > endian is standard practice of writing upstream drivers. It makes me
> > > doubt if you have any developers with upstream experience on your team
> > > if you don't know that. That and the fact that Huawei usually tops
> > > the list of net-negative review contributors in netdev.
> >
> > The most popular combination in the last 3 decades was little endian
> > CPUs with big endian device interfaces. Endianity conversion was a
> > necessity and therefore endian annotation became standard practice.
> > But it was never symmetric, conversion to/from BE was more common than
> > conversion to/from LE.
> >
> > As the pendulum moved from horizontal market to vertical market and major
> > companies started to develop both hw and sw, the hw engineers transformed
> > proprietary parts of the interface to little endian to save extra work in
> > the sw. AWS did it. Azure did it. Huawei did it. These vertical companies
> > do not care about endianity of CPUs they do not use.
> > This is not "corporate verbiage" this is a real market shift.
>
> Don't misquote me. You did it in your previous reply, now you're doing
> it again.
>
> If you don't understand what I'm saying you can ask for clarifications.
>

We studied previous submissions and followed their example.
Were the maintainers wrong to approve Amazon and Microsoft drivers?

I don't understand what the problem is. Please clarify.

> > The necessity for endian conversion is gone (or just halved). Will the
> > standard practice remain? There is not a single __le annotation in Amazon
> > and Microsoft code. Not in Mellanox code either. Maybe their hw is fully
> > BE (have to wonder about their DPUs). Amazingly, Intel that only creates
> > little endian CPUs has lots of __le annotations. But they are the flag
> > barer of horizontal market.
> >
> > Interesting how both Amazon and Microsoft started with:
> > depends on X86
> > Thus evaded demand for adding __le annotations to the code.
> > Later, both sneaked in quiet small patches with replacement to:
> > depends on !CPU_BIG_ENDIAN
> > Maybe that is the true meaning of "upstream experience".