phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] Some KDF stumbling blocks, plus Common "memory-hard" approaches and amortized attack costs.

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Message-ID: <548FD8D0.5060906@uni-weimar.de>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2014 08:01:36 +0100
From: Christian Forler <christian.forler@...-weimar.de>
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] Some KDF stumbling blocks, plus Common "memory-hard" approaches
 and amortized attack costs.

Am 12.12.2014 um 23:38 schrieb Gregory Maxwell:

> When considering the potential of state level attackers  (consider: A
> _single_ F-18 fighter costs around $30 million dollars) concerns
> around amortization and architectural gap reduction seem pretty
> material. (Keep in mind that there are publicly known state operated
> general purpose computers with over 1 petabyte dram).
> 
> A simple PBKDF2 has a strong argument for the minimum energy cost to
> attack it, not just on a desktop but for the best possible attacker
> barring any computer engineering or mathematical breakthrough.

Against state level attackers you might need a KEYED password hashing
scheme, since a low entropy secret is no match against those kinds of
attackers. A password that is protected by a 256-bit key should
withstand even state level attackers (e.g., NSA).

The state spends billions of dollars for espionage. Thus, I doubt that
the energy cost to recover a 40-bit secret protected by PBKDF2
matters at all.

BTW. At page 24, of our current Catena specification [1] we proposed a
keyed password hashing approach that thwarts off-line attacks.

[1]
http://www.uni-weimar.de/fileadmin/user/fak/medien/professuren/Mediensicherheit/Research/Publications/catena-v2.1.pdf

Best regards,
Christian

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