phc-discussions - Re: [PHC] enhancing Argon2 (was: Competition process)

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Message-ID: <20150421031546.GA18623@openwall.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 06:15:46 +0300
From: Solar Designer <solar@...nwall.com>
To: discussions@...sword-hashing.net
Subject: Re: [PHC] enhancing Argon2 (was: Competition process)

Dmitry,

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 05:33:18AM +0300, Solar Designer wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 11:08:42PM +0200, Dmitry Khovratovich wrote:
> > > To increase the latency of tradeoff attacks, I think BlaMka may be used
> > > (along with an un-pwxform chain like this, which serves its different
> > > purpose - hardening non-tradeoff latency and providing some anti-GPU).
> > 
> > If using BlaMka, why extra xform chain?

Oh, there's one more reason: then you don't need to chain your BlaMka's.
BlaMka will be to harden the tradeoff latency only, and the scalar chain
will be to harden the non-tradeoff latency only.

> Mostly for the anti-GPU.
> 
> Also, in pwxform I tried to maximize the per-bit latency (so that one
> round's highest latency output bits are needed by the next round early).
> I haven't looked into how optimal or not BLAKE2b's rotate counts happen
> to be in this respect (and adjusting them may be bad).
> 
> Finally, I suspect the extra chain might allow for a higher number of
> sequential multiplies than BlaMka for the same Argon2 performance.  The
> instruction issue rate for scalar units may be higher than for SIMD, and
> the multiply-hardening rounds may be more closely packed together in
> un-pwxform than in BlaMka.  (I think TwoCats might have had this sort of
> advantage over yescrypt, although this was in part because TwoCats had
> only multiplies, and not S-box lookups, on the scalar chain.)

Alexander