Date: Mon Dec 19 03:50:05 2005
From: fd at g-0.org (GroundZero Security)
Subject: [Clips] A small editorial about recent
	events.(fwd)

what a load of bullshit... that 9/11 thing seems to be the execuse for everything now ?
it was an terrorist act yet usa starts to invade any country that "could" be the home of those terrorist guys.
well its bad what happened and i dont support it at all, but its not the fault of some countries that 9/11 happened.
if bush keeps messing around like that, the whole world will hate him, but he doesnt care since he just invades any
country that seems to be trouble for him by making up false execuses. i think iran is next. look at those camps everywhere,
where people get locked up even if they are innocent. it reminds me of what my country did in ww2 ..really disgusting.
the sad thing is, that noone can do anything about it. everywhere around the world people are uppset about the u.s gov,
but non of them wants to step up. ah fuck it ..this has been discussed already a dozen times and no need to bring that in to the FD
list.
i just dont get what 9/11 has to do with the original topic, but as i said it seems to be the execuse for anything nowdays....
btw our company name has nothing to do with 911 :-P i wonder how many echelon sensors start to monitor this thread haha.

-sk
Http://www.groundzero-security.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <senator.crabgrass@...cast.net>
To: <Full-Disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Full-disclosure] [Clips] A small editorial about recent events.(fwd)


> This is very nice, but obviously you were not standing in the dust of the WTC Sept 11.  I don't care if we NUKE them, let alone
hurting a few feelings state side. You are from Missouri so Show me the proof that any citizens' rights were violated other than the
liberal press stirring the soup again, or please keep your political paranoia to yourself.
>
> BTW: Al Gore lost twice get over it.
>
>
> --
> vote for me
>
>  -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "J.A. Terranson" <measl@....org>
> >
> > Forwarded because we're fucking tired of hearing about n3td3v.
> >
> > -- 
> > Yours,
> >
> > J.A. Terranson
> > sysadmin@....org
> > 0xBD4A95BF
> >
> >
> > Just once, can't we have a nice polite discussion about
> > the logistics and planning side of large criminal enterprise?
> >
> > - Steve Thompson
> >
> >
> >  --- begin forwarded text
> >
> >
> >   Delivered-To: cryptography@...zdowd.com
> >   To: cryptography@...zdowd.com
> >   Subject: A small editorial about recent events.
> >   From: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@...rmont.com>
> >   Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 13:58:06 -0500
> >   Sender: owner-cryptography@...zdowd.com
> >
> >
> >   A small editorial from your moderator. I rarely use this list to
> >   express a strong political opinion -- you will forgive me in this
> >   instance.
> >
> >   This mailing list is putatively about cryptography and cryptography
> >   politics, though we do tend to stray quite a bit into security issues
> >   of all sorts, and sometimes into the activities of the agency with the
> >   biggest crypto and sigint budget in the world, the NSA.
> >
> >   As you may all be aware, the New York Times has reported, and the
> >   administration has admitted, that President of the United States
> >   apparently ordered the NSA to conduct surveillance operations against
> >   US citizens without prior permission of the secret court known as the
> >   Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (the "FISC"). This is in clear
> >   contravention of 50 USC 1801 - 50 USC 1811, a portion of the US code
> >   that provides for clear criminal penalties for violations. See:
> >
> >   http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode50/usc_sup_01_50_10_36_20_I.html
> >
> >   The President claims he has the prerogative to order such
> >   surveillance. The law unambiguously disagrees with him.
> >
> >   There are minor exceptions in the law, but they clearly do not apply
> >   in this case. They cover only the 15 days after a declaration of war
> >   by congress, a period of 72 hours prior to seeking court authorization
> >   (which was never sought), and similar exceptions that clearly are not
> >   germane.
> >
> >   There is no room for doubt or question about whether the President has
> >   the prerogative to order surveillance without asking the FISC -- even if
> >   the FISC is a toothless organization that never turns down requests,
> >   it is a federal crime, punishable by up to five years imprisonment, to
> >   conduct electronic surveillance against US citizens without court
> >   authorization.
> >
> >   The FISC may be worthless at defending civil liberties, but in its
> >   arrogant disregard for even the fig leaf of the FISC, the
> >   administration has actually crossed the line into a crystal clear
> >   felony. The government could have legally conducted such wiretaps
> >   at any time, but the President chose not to do it legally.
> >
> >   Ours is a government of laws, not of men. That means if the President
> >   disagrees with a law or feels that it is insufficient, he still must
> >   obey it. Ignoring the law is illegal, even for the President. The
> >   President may ask Congress to change the law, but meanwhile he must
> >   follow it.
> >
> >   Our President has chosen to declare himself above the law, a dangerous
> >   precedent that could do great harm to our country.  However, without
> >   substantial effort on the part of you, and I mean you, every person
> >   reading this, nothing much is going to happen.  The rule of law will
> >   continue to decay in our country. Future Presidents will claim even
> >   greater extralegal authority, and our nation will fall into
> >   despotism. I mean that sincerely. For the sake of yourself, your
> >   children and your children's children, you cannot allow this to stand.
> >
> >   Call your Senators and your Congressman.  Demand a full investigation,
> >   both by Congress and by a special prosecutor, of the actions of the
> >   Administration and the NSA. Say that the rule of law is all that
> >   stands between us and barbarism. Say that we live in a democracy, not
> >   a kingdom, and that our elected officials are not above the law. The
> >   President is not a King. Even the President cannot participate in a
> >   felony and get away with it. Demand that even the President must obey
> >   the law.
> >
> >   Tell your friends to do the same. Tell them to tell their friends to
> >   do the same. Then, call back next week and the week after and the week
> >   after that until something happens. Mark it in your calendar so you
> >   don't forget about it. Politicians have short memories, and Congress
> >   is about to recess for Christmas, so you must not allow this to be
> >   forgotten. Keep at them until something happens.
> >
> >
> >   Perry
> >
> >   ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >   The Cryptography Mailing List
> >   Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe cryptography" to majordomo@...zdowd.com
> >
> >  --- end forwarded text
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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>

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