Message-ID: <CALCvwp6V1Aa8dGyoueYWQoaESbM8ahrOKKt3UdaqNvF2F8CPuQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 19:32:34 +1100
From: xD 0x41 <secn3t@...il.com>
To: Darren Martyn <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com>
Cc: full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk
Subject: Re: VPN providers and any providers in general...

Good move!

Going back to my own example, say all three are first world countries, and A
and C are in the EU whilst B is the US. All nations involved have good
diplomatic relations and preexisting extradition treaties, and to add
interest to it, lets say the LEO in B and C helped the investigation. The
criomes would be non-financial, but say, large scale hacks and such. I will
use Jake Davis's case as a "canary case" for this though...

Id say, if the hacks are financial, then for sure yes.
If the guy is continuously ripping the places off and LEO is then involved
directly, the investigation would be ofcourse funded by whom ever was
loosing funds probably, as i know with some other cases, this has been the
case with one usa person who was really angry about being rooted and such..
so he personally financed the whole lot. i assume this would speed it up...
so, i would say, if there is also some fbi.gov investigations opened on it,
then the usa will be directly involed in a way, and bve even more able to
execute any warrants such as box seizures or router-taps.
I am saying "yes" in this case if the financiers personally fund it, 100%
yes.
I am sure, if there is a few people loosing money, and theyre offered to use
that route, it would be considered. It was and has been done in Australia,
and the box was in usa soil and it was the fastest takedown i have seen,
wich had abs NO press involved.
So, you have 2 countries here, and 2 leo involved, ofcourse they will
workout something if there is financial gain to be had.. the hacks alone, is
classed as 'break and enter' at moment, at-best.
I know this excuse (exactly: sql-onjection) was used as a means to get
router taps to actually, takedown the person for ddos and ddos networks.It
is just, the people who were getting ddosd,personally came to the country
the servers were mainly in, they were just one of many isps involved, and
personally sat and laid the charges, so the police had a direct ordfer
9sngapore - au) , and bang, they got him.. he is fine tho, the charges wre
minimal and he did abs no time.
the case is somewhat primitive but, for hacks alone, i know the guy is still
around irc and, knows that he cannot do anything illegal or, presumes that,
he is always watched now by fbi or others.
So it is hard one.
i say yes, because ive seen it done, but only if the treaty is extremely
clear....and, with ALL countrys this would have to be, agreed upon atleast,
if not executed in usa, atleast they would agree to the act and, possibly
assist if need be.
Is very wide, financial gain and pedoflia is the main targets atm, wich is
'thank god theyre not wasting time on wares..' basic, is my attitude and
always will be on this..
I still think, a hoster, has not to takedown anyone, specially if the
customer is promoting free speech (and is being done right now with
wikileaks..) so, what a mess!
great topic tho, love this, it is really interesting, but, again i would
like to call on a hugher authority to simply make a post regarding this,
someone with some power in a large comapny, who would have a vested interest
in NOT getting owned and, theyre databases of cc stolen, thats what i want,
a personal opinion from someone higher, who has this as a potential to
become a problem one day.
I guess i am abit hardcore on this whole topic eh ;p
cheers, it makes for good thinking,
xd






On 3 October 2011 19:16, Darren Martyn <d.martyn.fulldisclosure@...il.com>wrote:

> Going back to my own example, say all three are first world countries, and
> A and C are in the EU whilst B is the US. All nations involved have good
> diplomatic relations and preexisting extradition treaties, and to add
> interest to it, lets say the LEO in B and C helped the investigation. The
> criomes would be non-financial, but say, large scale hacks and such. I will
> use Jake Davis's case as a "canary case" for this though...
>
> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:31 AM, xD 0x41 <secn3t@...il.com> wrote:
>
>> Ah, the legend of the mailing-list himself, has spoken.
>> not knowing you, for all i have seen, your a pathetic sack of rubbish, and
>> really, what we are discussing, if you had ANY clue, wich obv dont, is
>> simply how far our own freedom is going.
>> You are an idiot.
>> Have a nice day.
>> xd
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 October 2011 08:45, andrew.wallace <andrew.wallace@...ketmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 5:50 AM,  <Valdis.Kletnieks@...edu> wrote:
>>> > On Sat, 01 Oct 2011 09:16:11 +1000, xD 0x41 said:
>>> >
>>> >> As you also said, murder is a no brainer in any place...well, maybe
>>> not iraq
>>> >> or afghanistan just yet :P lol..
>>> >
>>> > Iraq, for all its problems, is still a place with a somewhat functional
>>> > judicial system. The court system may be broken, but you in general
>>> *will* at
>>> > least appear in a courtroom with a judge and be pronounced guilty
>>> before you're
>>> > punished.
>>> >
>>> > I was actually thinking more along the lines of  totally failed states
>>> such as
>>> > Somalia, Sudan, or the contested parts of Afghanistan, where you can't
>>> be tried
>>> > for murder because there isn't a court to try you *in*.
>>> >
>>>
>>> Have you not grown old of talking to children on mailing lists?
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Andrew Wallace
>>>
>>> Independent consultant
>>>
>>> www.n3td3v.org.uk
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>

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