Message-ID: <CAD6s_XvAL0u5-L42K3c8+UEfHrN9_LYd4pMSK7vEbab77Use8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 09:17:01 +0100
From: Christian Sciberras <uuf6429@...il.com>
To: Mike Hale <eyeronic.design@...il.com>
Cc: "full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk" <full-disclosure@...ts.grok.org.uk>
Subject: Re: when did piracy/theft become expression of
	freedom

Uhm, that was a ridiculous situation anyway (@illegal primes).

So lets leave it at 'not necessarily'.






On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Mike Hale <eyeronic.design@...il.com>wrote:

> Not necessarily.
>
> Look at the effects of people posting DeCSS and the HDDVD keys a while
> back.
>
> The industry ended up giving in precisely because people said, en
> masse, "fuck off".
>
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Christian Sciberras <uuf6429@...il.com>
> wrote:
> > No, it follows the fact that vengeance (the "fuck you" Byron mentioned)
> > isn't fruitful to remedy the situation.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 8:54 AM, Mike Hale <eyeronic.design@...il.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> What you said doesn't follow.
> >>
> >> Making a digital copy isn't burning down a business.  The analogy
> >> linking 'piracy' with theft is ludicrous.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 11:50 PM, Christian Sciberras <
> uuf6429@...il.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Byron, you don't protest to the government by burning down
> 100-year-old
> >> > business, if you know what I mean...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 12:12 AM, Byron L. Sonne <
> byron.sonne@...il.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> The thing that makes me laugh about all of this, and one of the key
> >> >> things I learned from reading Gibbon's Decline & Fall is this:
> >> >>
> >> >> The number and frequency of laws passed regarding things directly
> >> >> relates to how widespread these things are, and how they much the
> laws
> >> >> are ignored and ineffective. Laws can't prevent a damn thing, they
> can
> >> >> only specify remedies. As it is said, "it's only illegal if you get
> >> >> caught".
> >> >>
> >> >> The cat is out of the bag and will never be put back in. There's no
> way
> >> >> to stop people from 'illegally' copying copyrighted material.
> >> >>
> >> >> If they somehow managed to require and implement tech so that perfect
> >> >> digital copies can't be made (unlikely) then people will simply use a
> >> >> camera to record the video as it plays on the screen. Hey, wait a
> >> >> minute, that sounds just like that screener I downloaded someone
> taped
> >> >> in Russia! ;)
> >> >>
> >> >> If they manage to require and implement tech so that you can't trade
> it
> >> >> over the internet (unlikely) then people will simply trade it on
> >> >> private
> >> >> networks or, like we used to do in the old days, via sneakernet.
> >> >>
> >> >> The problem is that in an attempt to control the dissemination of
> >> >> copyrighted material (and people are right, artists do have a right
> to
> >> >> reap the benefits of their effort) the powers-that-be are stepping
> over
> >> >> the line and into territory that impacts our ability to communicate
> in
> >> >> the fashion we choose.
> >> >>
> >> >> It might be fine to try and prevent piracy but in the process of
> doing
> >> >> so you are trashing the other desires of people that have nothing to
> do
> >> >> with piracy.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'm sure if the copyright lobby had their way, they'd require us to
> >> >> wear
> >> >> special glasses in order to see our laptop screens, on the assumption
> >> >> that anything not explicitly licensed was assumed to be unlicensed,
> and
> >> >> thus pirated, which we would be blocked from our field of view... and
> >> >> as
> >> >> a result, some girl/guy who wants to write a simple freeware text
> >> >> editor
> >> >> now has to jump through regulatory hoops and spend money to obtain a
> >> >> special registration that allows their text editor to display to the
> >> >> screen. This is a cheesy example, but I think it makes the point.
> >> >>
> >> >> In the guise of 'protecting artists and businesses' what is happening
> >> >> is
> >> >> that the powers-that-be are requesting (and too often getting) powers
> >> >> that allow them to trample on the general idea of freedom of
> >> >> communications and other things people cherish.
> >> >>
> >> >> As a result, people are inclined to engage in the very behaviours
> that
> >> >> elicited the laws and crackdowns, quite simply, as a way to raise
> their
> >> >> middle finger and say "Fuck You".
> >> >>
> >> >> This is when piracy and theft becomes freedom of expression - when
> it's
> >> >> done in protest.
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> http://www.freebyron.org
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
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> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Full-Disclosure - We believe in it.
> >> > Charter: http://lists.grok.org.uk/full-disclosure-charter.html
> >> > Hosted and sponsored by Secunia - http://secunia.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
>

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