lists.openwall.net   lists  /  announce  owl-users  owl-dev  john-users  john-dev  passwdqc-users  yescrypt  popa3d-users  /  oss-security  kernel-hardening  musl  sabotage  tlsify  passwords  /  crypt-dev  xvendor  /  Bugtraq  Full-Disclosure  linux-kernel  linux-netdev  linux-ext4  linux-hardening  PHC 
Open Source and information security mailing list archives
 
Hash Suite: Windows password security audit tool. GUI, reports in PDF.
[<prev] [next>] [<thread-prev] [thread-next>] [day] [month] [year] [list]
Date:	Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:50:40 +0100
From:	Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>
To:	Andy Lutomirski <luto@...capital.net>
Cc:	kernel list <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: DRAM unreliable under specific access patern

On Wed 2014-12-24 09:38:22, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz> wrote:
> > On Wed 2014-12-24 09:13:32, Andy Lutomirski wrote:
> >> On Wed, Dec 24, 2014 at 8:38 AM, Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz> wrote:
> >> > Hi!
> >> >
> >> > It seems that it is easy to induce DRAM bit errors by doing repeated
> >> > reads from adjacent memory cells on common hw. Details are at
> >> >
> >> > https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~safari/pubs/kim-isca14.pdf
> >> >
> >> > . Older memory modules seem to work better, and ECC should detect
> >> > this. Paper has inner loop that should trigger this.
> >> >
> >> > Workarounds seem to be at hardware level, and tricky, too.
> >>
> >> One mostly-effective solution would be to stop buying computers
> >> without ECC.  Unfortunately, no one seems to sell non-server chips
> >> that can do ECC.
> >
> > Or keep using old computers :-).
> >
> >> > Does anyone have implementation of detector? Any ideas how to work
> >> > around it in software?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Platform-dependent page coloring with very strict, and impossible to
> >> implement fully correctly, page allocation constraints?
> >
> > This seems to be at cacheline level, not at page level, if I
> > understand it correctly.
> >
> > So the problem would is: I have something mapped read-only, and I can
> > still cause bitflips in it.
> >
> > Hmm. So it is pretty obviously a security problem, no need for
> > java. Just do some bit flips in binary root is going to run, and it
> > will crash for him. You can map binaries read-only, so you have enough
> > access.

> Right.  So we're mostly screwed.

Well... We could periodically scrub (every few miliseconds) pages
mapped to userspace. We might be able to do some magic and disallow
cache flushes to userspace programs. We might be able to use
performance metrics to detect heavy readers.

We might be able to reprogram DRAM controller to refresh more often.

Or we may switch to AMD systems as they seem to be less suspectible
:-).
								Pavel
-- 
(english) http://www.livejournal.com/~pavelmachek
(cesky, pictures) http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/picture/horses/blog.html
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in
the body of a message to majordomo@...r.kernel.org
More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
Please read the FAQ at  http://www.tux.org/lkml/

Powered by blists - more mailing lists