linux-kernel - Re: [RFC PATCH] PM / Runtime: runtime: Add sysfs option for forcing runtime suspend

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Message-ID: <1935189.6gJVPG4I9g@vostro.rjw.lan>
Date:	Mon, 28 Sep 2015 15:41:58 +0200
From:	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@...ysocki.net>
To:	Alan Stern <stern@...land.harvard.edu>
Cc:	Oliver Neukum <oneukum@...e.de>,
	Dmitry Torokhov <dmitry.torokhov@...il.com>,
	Irina Tirdea <irina.tirdea@...el.com>,
	Len Brown <len.brown@...el.com>,
	Octavian Purdila <octavian.purdila@...el.com>,
	"Rafael J. Wysocki" <rafael@...nel.org>,
	Ulf Hansson <ulf.hansson@...aro.org>,
	Pavel Machek <pavel@....cz>,
	"linux-input@...r.kernel.org" <linux-input@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
	"linux-pm@...r.kernel.org" <linux-pm@...r.kernel.org>,
	Greg Kroah-Hartman <gregkh@...uxfoundation.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH] PM / Runtime: runtime: Add sysfs option for forcing runtime suspend

On Sunday, September 27, 2015 10:27:25 AM Alan Stern wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Sep 2015, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> 
> > On Saturday, September 26, 2015 11:20:50 AM Alan Stern wrote:
> > > On Sat, 26 Sep 2015, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > > So something like:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 	echo on >/sys/.../power/control  (in case the device was
> > > > > > 			already in runtime suspend with wakeups enabled)
> > > > > > 	echo off >/sys/.../power/wakeup
> > > > > > 	echo auto >/sys/.../power/control
> 
> > > We still need some sort of "inhibit" callback for cases where the
> > > driver doesn't want to go into runtime suspend but does want to turn
> > > off all I/O.  Should this callback be triggered when the user writes
> > > "off" to power/wakeup, or when the user writes "inhibit" to
> > > power/control, or should there be a separate sysfs attribute?
> > 
> > My first thought is that if there is a separate attribute, then it only actually
> > makes sense for devices that generate input events, while the "off" thing may
> > be generally useful in principle (eg. it may indicate to disable PME for the
> > device to the PCI layer etc).
> 
> I'm not sure how much sense that distinction makes.  It seems to me the
> only time you want to ignore potential wakeup events is if you want to
> ignore _all_ input.  Which is basically what "inhibit" means.

The other case I had in mind is specific to the PCI layer and might be better
served by adding an "ignore PME" flag to PCI devices.

> This suggests we forget about power/wakeup == "off" and introduce an 
> "inhibit" attribute instead.

If we do that, can it still be regarded as a PM attribute?

And what about the corresponding callback?  Should that be a PM callback or
a general one?

> > OTOH, the additional "inhibit" attribute may only be exposed if the corresponding
> > callback is present, so I'm not really sure.
> 
> It could be a separate attribute, or it could be a new entry for
> power/control.  Come to think of it, a separate attribute might be
> better.  Otherwise we would lose track of whether runtime suspend was
> permitted (the "on" vs. "auto" distinction) when the device was
> inhibited.  I can imagine someone might want to forbid runtime suspend
> but still inhibit a device.
> 
> However, I agree that there's no point registering a separate attribute
> or accepting a write of "inhibit" to power/control if there's no
> corresponding callback.
> 
> > Question is, though, what's the use case for turning off I/O when we don't
> > go into runtime suspend.  After all, runtime suspend need not mean putting
> > the device into any kind of low-power state and the "off" thing may very
> > well be defined to mean that all input is discarded if the device is
> > runtime-suspended and the device is not configured to do remote wakeup
> > then.
> 
> Well, I suppose there might be a driver that supports inhibit but
> doesn't support runtime PM, unlikely as that seems.  Or the driver
> might support both but the user might leave power/control == "on" while
> inhibiting the device.

That sounds like a general rather than PM-related mechanism then.

I guess we need a real use case for that last thing or it will be rather
difficult to convince Greg to accept the patch. :-)

Thanks,
Rafael

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