linux-kernel - RE: [RFC 10/20] iommu/iommufd: Add IOMMU_DEVICE_GET

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Date:   Thu, 14 Oct 2021 08:13:03 +0000
From:   "Tian, Kevin" <kevin.tian@...el.com>
To:     "hch@....de" <hch@....de>, Jason Gunthorpe <jgg@...dia.com>
CC:     Jean-Philippe Brucker <jean-philippe@...aro.org>,
        "kvm@...r.kernel.org" <kvm@...r.kernel.org>,
        "jasowang@...hat.com" <jasowang@...hat.com>,
        "kwankhede@...dia.com" <kwankhede@...dia.com>,
        "Jiang, Dave" <dave.jiang@...el.com>,
        "Raj, Ashok" <ashok.raj@...el.com>,
        "corbet@....net" <corbet@....net>,
        "parav@...lanox.com" <parav@...lanox.com>,
        Alex Williamson <alex.williamson@...hat.com>,
        "lkml@...ux.net" <lkml@...ux.net>,
        "david@...son.dropbear.id.au" <david@...son.dropbear.id.au>,
        "dwmw2@...radead.org" <dwmw2@...radead.org>,
        "Tian, Jun J" <jun.j.tian@...el.com>,
        "linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@...r.kernel.org>,
        "lushenming@...wei.com" <lushenming@...wei.com>,
        "pbonzini@...hat.com" <pbonzini@...hat.com>,
        "robin.murphy@....com" <robin.murphy@....com>
Subject: RE: [RFC 10/20] iommu/iommufd: Add IOMMU_DEVICE_GET_INFO

> From: hch@....de <hch@....de>
> Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 11:28 AM
> 
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 07:04:46PM -0300, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
> > > On Arm cache coherency is configured through PTE attributes. I don't
> think
> > > PCI No_snoop should be used because it's not necessarily supported
> > > throughout the system and, as far as I understand, software can't
> discover
> > > whether it is.
> >
> > The usage of no-snoop is a behavior of a device. A generic PCI driver
> > should be able to program the device to generate no-snoop TLPs and
> > ideally rely on an arch specific API in the OS to trigger the required
> > cache maintenance.
> 
> Well, it is a combination of the device, the root port and the driver
> which all need to be in line to use this.
> 
> > It doesn't make much sense for a portable driver to rely on a
> > non-portable IO PTE flag to control coherency, since that is not a
> > standards based approach.
> >
> > That said, Linux doesn't have a generic DMA API to support
> > no-snoop. The few GPUs drivers that use this stuff just hardwired
> > wbsync on Intel..
> 
> Yes, as usual the GPU folks come up with nasty hacks instead of
> providing generic helper.  Basically all we'd need to support it
> in a generic way is:
> 
>  - a DMA_ATTR_NO_SNOOP (or DMA_ATTR_FORCE_NONCOHERENT to fit the
> Linux
>    terminology) which treats the current dma_map/unmap/sync calls as
>    if dev_is_dma_coherent was false
>  - a way for the driver to discover that a given architecture / running
>    system actually supports this

Based on above information my interpretation is that existing 
DMA API manages coherency per device and It's not designed for
devices which are coherent in nature but also set PCI no-snoop
for selective traffic. Then the new DMA_ATTR_NO_SNOOP, once
set in dma_map, allows the driver to follow non-coherent
semantics even when the device itself is considered coherent.

Does it capture the whole story correct? 

> 
> > What I don't really understand is why ARM, with an IOMMU that supports
> > PTE WB, has devices where dev_is_dma_coherent() == false ?
> 
> Because no IOMMU in the world can help that fact that a periphal on the
> SOC is not part of the cache coherency protocol.

but since DMA goes through IOMMU then isn't IOMMU the one who
should decide the final cache coherency? What would be the case
if the IOMMU sets WB while the peripheral doesn't want it?

Thanks
Kevin