netdev - Re: [RFC PATCH bpf-next 00/14] xdp

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Message-ID: <14c4a876-6f5d-4750-cbe4-19622f64975b@gmail.com>
Date:   Thu, 15 Aug 2019 19:26:36 +0900
From:   Toshiaki Makita <toshiaki.makita1@...il.com>
To:     Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@...ichev.me>,
        Alexei Starovoitov <ast@...nel.org>,
        Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>
Cc:     Martin KaFai Lau <kafai@...com>, Song Liu <songliubraving@...com>,
        Yonghong Song <yhs@...com>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Jakub Kicinski <jakub.kicinski@...ronome.com>,
        Jesper Dangaard Brouer <hawk@...nel.org>,
        John Fastabend <john.fastabend@...il.com>,
        Jamal Hadi Salim <jhs@...atatu.com>,
        Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@...il.com>,
        Jiri Pirko <jiri@...nulli.us>, netdev@...r.kernel.org,
        bpf@...r.kernel.org, William Tu <u9012063@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC PATCH bpf-next 00/14] xdp_flow: Flow offload to XDP

On 2019/08/15 2:07, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
> On 08/13, Toshiaki Makita wrote:
>> * Implementation
>>
>> xdp_flow makes use of UMH to load an eBPF program for XDP, similar to
>> bpfilter. The difference is that xdp_flow does not generate the eBPF
>> program dynamically but a prebuilt program is embedded in UMH. This is
>> mainly because flow insertion is considerably frequent. If we generate
>> and load an eBPF program on each insertion of a flow, the latency of the
>> first packet of ping in above test will incease, which I want to avoid.
> Can this be instead implemented with a new hook that will be called
> for TC events? This hook can write to perf event buffer and control
> plane will insert/remove/modify flow tables in the BPF maps (contol
> plane will also install xdp program).
> 
> Why do we need UMH? What am I missing?

So you suggest doing everything in xdp_flow kmod?
I also thought about that. There are two phases so let's think about them separately.

1) TC block (qdisc) creation / eBPF load

I saw eBPF maintainers repeatedly saying eBPF program loading needs to be
done from userland, not from kernel, to run the verifier for safety.
However xdp_flow eBPF program is prebuilt and embedded in kernel so we may
allow such programs to be loaded from kernel? I currently don't have the will
to make such an API as loading can be done with current UMH mechanism.

2) flow insertion / eBPF map update

Not sure if this needs to be done from userland. One concern is that eBPF maps can
be modified by unrelated processes and we need to handle all unexpected state of maps.
Such handling tends to be difficult and may cause unexpected kernel behavior.
OTOH updating maps from kmod may reduces the latency of flow insertion drastically.

Alexei, Daniel, what do you think?

Toshiaki Makita