netdev - Re: [PATCH nf-next] netfilter: nf

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Message-ID: <CAADnVQLSQPnT+8EV15=6MHzMCpfcPn9SOONERLtO2TJY43JUhg@mail.gmail.com>
Date:   Fri, 2 Sep 2022 09:53:09 -0700
From:   Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com>
To:     Eyal Birger <eyal.birger@...il.com>
Cc:     Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net>,
        Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de>,
        Andrii Nakryiko <andrii@...nel.org>,
        Martin KaFai Lau <martin.lau@...ux.dev>,
        "David S. Miller" <davem@...emloft.net>,
        Jakub Kicinski <kuba@...nel.org>,
        Network Development <netdev@...r.kernel.org>,
        Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@...nel.org>,
        netfilter-devel <netfilter-devel@...r.kernel.org>,
        bpf <bpf@...r.kernel.org>,
        Shmulik Ladkani <shmulik.ladkani@...il.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH nf-next] netfilter: nf_tables: add ebpf expression

On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 10:18 PM Eyal Birger <eyal.birger@...il.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2022 at 1:16 AM Daniel Borkmann <daniel@...earbox.net> wrote:
> >
> > On 8/31/22 7:26 PM, Alexei Starovoitov wrote:
> > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2022 at 8:53 AM Florian Westphal <fw@...len.de> wrote:
> > >> Alexei Starovoitov <alexei.starovoitov@...il.com> wrote:
> > >>>> 1 and 2 have the upside that its easy to handle a 'file not found'
> > >>>> error.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'm strongly against calling into bpf from the inner guts of nft.
> > >>> Nack to all options discussed in this thread.
> > >>> None of them make any sense.
> > >>
> > >> -v please.  I can just rework userspace to allow going via xt_bpf
> > >> but its brain damaged.
> > >
> > > Right. xt_bpf was a dead end from the start.
> > > It's time to deprecate it and remove it.
> > >
> > >> This helps gradually moving towards move epbf for those that
> > >> still heavily rely on the classic forwarding path.
> > >
> > > No one is using it.
> > > If it was, we would have seen at least one bug report over
> > > all these years. We've seen none.
> > >
> > > tbh we had a fair share of wrong design decisions that look
> > > very reasonable early on and turned out to be useless with
> > > zero users.
> > > BPF_PROG_TYPE_SCHED_ACT and BPF_PROG_TYPE_LWT*
> > > are in this category. > All this code does is bit rot.
> >
> > +1
> >
> > > As a minimum we shouldn't step on the same rakes.
> > > xt_ebpf would be the same dead code as xt_bpf.
> >
> > +1, and on top, the user experience will just be horrible. :(
> >
> > >> If you are open to BPF_PROG_TYPE_NETFILTER I can go that route
> > >> as well, raw bpf program attachment via NF_HOOK and the bpf dispatcher,
> > >> but it will take significantly longer to get there.
> > >>
> > >> It involves reviving
> > >> https://lore.kernel.org/netfilter-devel/20211014121046.29329-1-fw@strlen.de/
> > >
> > > I missed it earlier. What is the end goal ?
> > > Optimize nft run-time with on the fly generation of bpf byte code ?
> >
> > Or rather to provide a pendant to nft given existence of xt_bpf, and the
> > latter will be removed at some point? (If so, can't we just deprecate the
> > old xt_bpf?)
>
> FWIW we've been using both lwt bpf and xt_bpf on our production workloads
> for a few years now.
>
> xt_bpf allows us to apply custom sophisticated policy logic at connection
> establishment - which is not really possible (or efficient) using
> iptables/nft constructs - without needing to reinvent all the facilities that
> nf provides like connection tracking, ALGs, and simple filtering.
>
> As for lwt bpf, We use it for load balancing towards collect md tunnels.
> While this can be done at tc egress for unfragmented packets, the lwt out hook -
> when used in tandem with nf fragment reassembly - provides a hooking point
> where a bpf program can see reassembled packets and load balance based on
> their internals.

Sounds very interesting!
Any open source code to look at ?